The “fresh start” effect

Brian Ford (00:07):

Welcome to the Money and Mindset podcast, where we balance financial advice with positive psychology to help create more happiness for your mind and money. Each episode, we discuss practical advice for managing your finances and how your outlook influences your money habits. I’m Brian Ford, chief financial wellness nerd. I’m here with Bright Dickson, our resident positive psychology dork. And I’ll tell you, Bright, even though you told me I could say that, and you call yourself kind of a dork every once in a while, I’ll just right out of the gate say I’m uncomfortable with that. I’m pretty sure if my mom’s listening, she’s disappointed already. But there you have it.

Here we are, Bright. It’s a brand-new year. Although we’re well into the year, it’s never too late for a fresh start. We’ll discuss mindsets and goal-setting tips that can really help you make progress on your finances and your life. All right, Bright. We’ve heard that famous saying, “You are what you think.” Let’s talk about that just for a little bit.

Bright Dickson (01:06):

Yeah, it’s such an interesting saying. And I think there’s a lot of wisdom in there. If I were able to amend it just a little bit I might say, “You do what you think, and over time, that makes you who you are.” But we know that the way you think, the mindsets you bring into your daily life, and your big goals and the way you approach your life itself really, really make a difference.

Brian Ford (01:30):

Yeah, I like that. But mindset is a big deal. The kind of mindset we have determines the choices and actions we take, and that’s why it’s so important, every once in a while, just to step back and look at our thoughts and beliefs that drive us. But Bright, what is mindset, and why is it so important?

Bright Dickson (01:44):

Yeah. I want to give credit where credit is due. Most of the research around mindset comes from the work of Carol Dweck at Stanford University. She’s been doing research on mindset for 40 years now, and she really looks at how our most fundamental beliefs about ourselves impact our actions and then ultimately the results we get. And what she’s found is that our core beliefs about ourselves, the beliefs that we have about our ability to change ourselves, those beliefs have a lot of influence on what we choose to do or what we choose not to do. And those dynamics are summarized by these two different mindsets, growth and fixed.

Brian Ford (02:29):

Growth and fixed. I know you’ve talked about that before, but give us a little more. What’s the difference between a growth mindset and a fixed mindset? Why is having a growth mindset essential to our well-being and success?

Bright Dickson (02:44):

People with a fixed mindset believe that their most fundamental attributes—so we’re thinking about intelligence, your abilities, your skills, your talents—they believe that they’re fixed and therefore cannot be changed. And you get what you get. People with a growth mindset, on the other hand, they believe that their abilities can be enhanced and developed through learning, through dedication and, most importantly, through hard work. There’s a huge effort component to folks with a growth mindset versus those who have a fixed mindset. People with a growth mindset are more likely to succeed in what they do because they actively seek opportunities for growth and improvement in their life and in their career. It’s important that there are a couple of nuances here.

Each of us has a blend of mindsets in these different domains. And my mix is very different than your mix, and your mix is very different than someone else’s mix. We’re all really unique in this blend that we have. So it’s really possible and probable that maybe I have a growth mindset about my intelligence and my ability to learn, but at the same time I have fixed mindsets around my creativity or athleticism. So it’s really, really normal to have a mix of mindsets. And it’s an interesting exercise to think about, where do I have a growth mindset and where do my fixed mindsets show up?

Brian Ford (04:11):

Yeah. It’s not only probably a continuum for each individual, but it’s probably a bit of a continuum on the different ideas, whether it’s intelligence or athleticism. There’s a mix there for sure.

Bright Dickson (04:21):

One other thing is that the difference between the mindsets, between growth and fixed mindset, they really show up in how we choose to behave. So if I have a growth mindset about something, let’s say my creativity, I’m going to go seek out challenges or obstacles. And the way that they’re going to show up to me aren’t necessarily as places where I’m likely to fail, but places where I’m likely to learn. Places where I’m likely to see myself grow and change. So I see them as opportunities. I’m actually going to seek out constructive criticism. I’m going to say, “Hey Brian, what did I do wrong there? How can I get better?"

Brian Ford (04:59):

Yikes

Bright Dickson (04:59):

Right. Yeah. Scary. Right.

Brian Ford (05:01):

As you’re talking, I’m like, “I think I’m growth.” But then when you start talking about things like constructive criticism, I’m like, “Eh.”

Bright Dickson (05:08):

Yeah, it’s a skill in and of itself, being able to not only go ask for it, but take it in, process it, and do something different the next time without getting defensive about it. It’s a really psychologically complicated process. The other thing here is that people with a growth mindset in a certain domain, they’re going to seek out things that are above their skill level, because if I’m seeking it out, the thing that’s going to push me a little bit, that I’m more likely to fail at because I don’t have the skills yet, what it means is that I’m not afraid of a failure. That I almost don’t take that failure personally. I take it as a learning for my own growth and development. Lesson learned, next challenge. So, they’re really different approaches to learning.

Brian Ford (05:58):

Yeah, it’s fascinating. As you speak, I start to self-identify myself and, where am I at on that continuum? And I definitely feel like I have a growth mindset, but I wonder if I was almost forced into that because I feel like I just wasn’t born with X, Y, Z, great intelligence or athleticism, and therefore I was like, “I’ve got to dig in and work harder than other people.” But it’s something that I can work on, for sure. Well Bright, let’s chat about some actionable steps around this idea of growth mindset. What can our listeners do to develop a growth mindset, and how do they maintain a growth mindset?

Bright Dickson (06:30):

It’s a lifelong challenge. For many of us, we’ve got to work at this pretty much constantly. I’ll just tell you what works for me. The first thing that works for me is to really notice the way I talk to myself. I know a lot of people are in this boat with me, where I will say stuff to myself about myself that I would never say to anyone else about themselves. I—

Brian Ford (06:55):

Meaning it’s so negative?

Bright Dickson (06:58):

I would probably run away from anyone who said this to me, but I talk to myself in a really mean way fairly often. So I would say, notice your self-talk. Notice exactly what you say to yourself in your own mind, particularly when you’re up against a challenge or you’ve experienced a failure. So, if you’re experiencing more of a fixed mindset, you might think things like, “Ugh, I’m so bad at this,” or, “There’s no way I can do this,” or “Ugh, that just shows what an idiot I am.” And that brand of thinking naturally leads to quitting or giving up. So, if I already believe that I’m really bad at something, then it would be the logical thing to go ahead and quit because I’ve already decided I can’t do it. There’s a logic to it, but there’s a logic to growth mindset too.

People with a growth mindset, they’re not saying like, “Oh no, I’m great at this. This is all going super well.” They’ll say things like, “Wow, this is really hard and I’m struggling.” They’re talking about this very specific situation. “I’m experiencing difficulty in this situation.” And then they ask the question, “Well, what can I do to move forward?” So they’re really different thought patterns that lead to really, really different behaviors. Another thing that I’ve noticed is that sometimes I’ll be like, “All right, I have a fixed mindset about this thing in my life.” And I’m pretty committed to that belief. For whatever reason, I have lots of evidence to say that I’m correct in this belief. But I also don’t like that. I don’t like that. I believe that. So, you can kind of take a fake it till you make it approach here. And the thing that I ask myself is, “All right, I have a fixed mindset about it, but if I had a growth mindset about this, what would I do?”

And then I go do that. I just put the cart before the horse. I don’t wait for my mind to catch up, I just go ahead and do that thing. Nine times out of 10, I see progress. And that, in a backwards way, starts to change my mindset. Another trick I’ve learned is to do stuff that I am bad at. My classic thing—

Brian Ford (09:07):

What?

Bright Dickson (09:07):

Yeah. Go out and seek out that stuff, because it gets you more comfortable with not having instant success. We love instant success. We love to just be great at stuff, but we’re not all good at the same things. For me, racket sports, I’m terrible at racket sports, but I go out and play racket sports occasionally just to know that I can do something bad and still be fundamentally OK. That it’s not going to kill me.

Brian Ford (09:34):

Nice. Yeah, it’s allowing yourself to have a little space to grow. It’s being gentle with yourself, knowing that it’s a process.

Bright Dickson (09:40):

Yeah.

Brian Ford (09:41):

It’s easier said than done, no doubt, but yeah, mindset’s absolutely key. As you’re talking, you know, Bright, my nerdy financial mind is starting to churn and I’m starting to see, “OK, how do we apply the growth mindset to finances? How do we take this concept and bring it down to how we manage our money from day to day?” Because it definitely shapes our financial decisions. No doubt about it.

Bright Dickson (10:08):

And how does that play out? How do you see that really operating on the ground?

Brian Ford (10:12):

I run into people... And I find myself, I have to be careful. People with a fixed mindset relative to money, they might just believe, “I’m not good with money,” or, “Finances are complicated. I’ll never understand that stuff.” But in reality, money’s like any new task—it can be learned. I live in a neighborhood with lots of little kids that play on the street and so forth. And I’d never label a little 4-year-old girl as dumb because she can’t ride a bike, or unathletic. She just needs to learn how to do it and practice. And I know that makes perfect sense to us as adults listening to this, but it’s the same way with us, with our money. In fact, I think money should be one of the easiest things to handle. I know that sounds bonkers. Why would I say something like that? Well, it’s because money is an object. It’s subject to our management. So, someone with a growth mindset, they see money management as simply something to learn and conquer.

Bright Dickson (11:05):

Yeah. And I see that argument, and you know that I’ve called myself a financial ding-dong. And maybe I should amend it now with this mindset conversation to a recovering financial ding-dong. But money can be really complicated and emotional too. How do you deal with that?

Brian Ford (11:24):

Yeah. No, I agree. I agree with the complicated remark, not the ding-dong statement. We’re always going to come up against challenges or things we don’t understand about money. It’s a deep subject. Learning about it takes effort. For example, once we have our spending under control and we’ve saved for an emergency account, then we need to know how to build our credit or how to invest or the nuances of insurance. We don’t need to be overwhelmed or feel inadequate, we simply take one subject at a time, look at it like a challenge to overcome, and then learn about it. To not fully understand everything about money, it’s human. It’s not a reflection of our intelligence.

Bright Dickson (12:01):

I think that’s a really, really good distinction and a great application of growth mindset that really, not to make a pun, but will pay dividends in the future for people who choose to take on that kind of challenge.

Brian Ford (12:15):

Dividends.

Bright Dickson (12:16):

Yeah. Dividends. Brian, I wanted to talk about this idea of the fresh start effect. We’re in this new year and a lot of us are still recovering from the fallout of 2020, all the things that have already happened in 2021. Not only was it a rocky financial year, but it was a rocky year for our well-being, particularly our mental well-being. The good news is that we’ve got this new year, this idea of the fresh start. How do we get that boost for ’20 and ’21, using this fresh start effect? How can we use this moment to set ourselves up for success in life and in money, no matter what 2021 brings.

Brian Ford (13:09):

I love the power of the fresh start effect. It’s the idea that our past does not completely dictate our future. Don’t get me wrong, the past will have sway in our lives, but I think sometimes we give the past way too much power. The fresh start effect, on the other hand, says we can move on. We can change. We can be better. And sometimes it just takes a catalyst, like a starting point or a fresh start. And we normally associate a fresh start with the new year, and that’s perfectly normal and good. However, we can initiate a fresh start around other events, or we can simply create one in our mind. For example, I love fresh starts around springtime. Spring is awesome for me. I’m not a winter guy. Don’t like cold weather. So, for me, I like when the sun starts coming out. I like when it warms up. I like when flowers are blooming. So I like spring.

Some people love fall, especially if you’ve got kids. Summer’s sometimes chaotic but then fall time comes, kids get back into school, we get back into routine. So fall’s a good time. But it doesn’t have to be a time of year. It can be around a life event, like starting a new job. So, I think you get the idea. The cool thing is we don’t have to wait for a new year for this fresh start effect.

Bright Dickson (14:17):

Right. We make our own fresh starts. I’m definitely an eternal student, so when September rolls around I start thinking about new pencils and getting some new folders and using that, even though I’m not in school anymore, as my fresh start.

Brian Ford (14:32):

Yeah. That’s awesome.

Bright Dickson (14:33):

What do you think it looks like relative to money? How can you use this year as a fresh start or create your own fresh start around thinking about your finances.

Brian Ford (14:42):

First, let’s let go of some of the financial baggage, meaning let’s not dwell on our past money mistakes. It’s normal to acknowledge these mistakes and learn from them, but let’s not dwell on them. Take a deep breath. Literally take a deep breath and be excited about the idea that we can take control of what we can control and move forward. Next, pick a time for your fresh start, like April 1. Let’s go, springtime. And then finally we want to identify what we want to do different, like save more money, set a goal, and then allow yourself space to change, and identify yourself as being a good saver. As I’m talking about this, I’m curious. Have you used the fresh start effect in your life?

Bright Dickson (15:26):

This year, after New Year’s, I’ve started walking in the mornings with my neighbor and my dog. And so we do about two miles just in the neighborhood every morning. It’s interesting to me because I started that as my fresh start. It was sort of my new year’s resolution without officially doing all the resolution rituals. I just started doing it. But it also gives me a fresh start each morning, to where I already know at 7:00 am—or 7:30. Let’s be a little more realistic when I finish my walk. But like, 7:30 am, I’ve already made that morning a fresh start. It just gives me a boost in the day. I think the exercise itself, but for me being able to check off, “All right, I already did something good. No matter where this day goes, I’ve fulfilled my promises to myself.” That is a real boost for me.

Brian Ford (16:19):

Every time we talk, and we sometimes do these podcasts, I’m not sure where the discussion will go. But I’ve never even thought of a fresh start from a daily perspective. I’m thinking in months and years, and you’re like, “I fresh start every morning.” And I’m like, “Holy smokes."

Bright Dickson (16:33):

It’s just what you want to be your fresh start. A lot of people use their birthdays. I read a study that said that there are more people who run marathons in the year that they pass a decade. So you’re going to see a lot of people who are turning 20, 30, 40, 50, 60. They tend to run marathons, because they use that decade as their fresh start.

Brian Ford (16:57):

I don’t turn 50 for at least another seven years, so no marathons for me.

Bright Dickson (17:02):

We’ll hope to see you in the marathon in seven years, Brian. I know you’ll win it. How about you? Where do you find fresh starts?

Brian Ford (17:11):

I will say New Year’s. New Year’s is another one that I like. And it’s a good one for me because it’s in the middle of winter. It’s in my rut, and it’s good for me to turn over a new leaf, start a new year’s resolution type of thing. I’m not any different than a lot of the folks that are listening to our podcast today. I had set some fresh start goals around health this New Year’s, and I’m doing it with my family, which is super fun. And we actually got these rocks in these glasses, these clear cylinders. And we have a large rock for when we exercise, and we have a little pebble when we eat a fruit or a vegetable. If you eat a dessert, you’ve got to take out one of the little pebbles. And it’s a very visual way for us at the end of the day to just pile up these pebbles and visually see how we’re doing. But that’s what we’re up to at the new year. It’s been fun so far.

Bright Dickson (17:52):

What a cool little ritual around that. I love that.

As we’re thinking about mindset and how it applies to our finances, Brian, I wonder if we could talk a little about goal setting.

Brian Ford (18:12):

Heck yeah.

Bright Dickson (18:13):

Yeah, you love goal setting, particularly around your finances. And more specifically, how to set realistic goals using the right strategies and tools. What are some of the basic steps we should focus on when it comes to setting financial goals in particular?

Bright Dickson:

Absolutely. I think, checking in on people. Check in on your neighbors, especially if they’re older. Go see how they’re doing, that’s really important. Make a meal. If you can cook, cook something for someone;make an extra serving and grab a Tupperware, and take it over. If you bake, bake a few extra cookies, that type of thing.

Brian Ford (18:31):

Yeah, the good news is setting a financial goal, it’s like setting any other goal. And I’d love to share a few things that have helped me in my family cycles over the years, because we’ve had to learn. First, we think of something about our money that we want to do or get better at. What’s the idea? What’s the dream? And we just jot that thing down. It doesn’t need to be pretty, just get it down. Then once it’s down, we want to refine this idea into an actual goal. And this is where I nerd out, but yes, good goals need to be specific, time-bound, measurable. I also think it’s helpful to set long-term goals, a bigger dream, a bigger idea. And then you can always set short-term goals to help us get there.

Brian Ford (19:14):

With regard to bigger, long-term goals, growing up my dad would always say, “Brian, you set the goal first and then you see. You never see first.” When I was young I was like, “What is he talking about?”

Bright Dickson (19:25):

But now what do you know about it? What have you learned about it?

Brian Ford (19:28):

Well, there’s definite wisdom there. He was trying to help me see that I’m really logical. I like to figure everything out. I like to accomplish things. And he was like, “Brian, you can’t figure everything out first and then realize it’s either going to work or not. You’ve got to dream. What do you want to accomplish? Set that goal. Don’t think too hard about it to begin with. Just set it. Get it out there. Write it down, share it with somebody.” And then my logical brain can start to churn on how I actually am going to accomplish that. Is it realistic? Can I do it? Who will help me? And that really helped someone like me to dream a little bit more. And I’ll tell you, it sunk in because when I was in college I was like, “I’m going to start a financial education company, and I want this financial education company to deliver financial wellness in a fun and engaging way.”

And I just wrote these things down and I started to dream, and I didn’t let my logical brain get in the way of, “Who are you to start a financial education company? Who’s going to listen to you? What are you actually going to say? What’s your background? Are you qualified for this?” And that was really helpful because if I don’t think I ever did that, I don’t know if I’d be doing this podcast right now. I wouldn’t have built a successful financial education company that then was purchased by a bank that I love working for now. And so I think there’s wisdom in setting the goal first and then you see. You never see first.

Bright Dickson (20:44):

Yeah. So much wisdom. Just the idea that you don’t have to have everything figured out, nor can you. It’s not reasonable to think that we can figure out everything. We’ve kind of got to start a plan and then adjust the plan as we move along. I love that. So, speaking of plans, Brian, as part of my fresh start for this year, I know that I, Bright Dickson, need to get better at budgeting and really understanding what I’m spending and when and how. What do I do? Tell me what to do.

Brian Ford (21:19):

All right, let’s walk through this for real. This is going to be fun. First, let me ask you a question. How do you feel about budgeting?

Bright Dickson (21:28):

I feel bored about budgeting.

Brian Ford (21:33):

OK, fair enough. I don’t think you’re alone. Totally an understandable response, but now let’s sprinkle in a little growth mindset idea. I can tell you, Bright, from experience that I’ve seen people go from thinking budgeting is boring and being terrible at budgeting to being good at it. And not just a few, but a lot of people. Budgeting’s like any other skill. It takes a bit of learning and practice, but like anything else, it can be mastered. Here’s another question for you: hy do you want to be better at budgeting?

Bright Dickson (22:07):

One is that you say it’s a good idea and I trust you. Number two, I guess I just think it’s something I should know how to do. It’s a grown-up skill and I guess technically and legally I am a grown-up. And I know that I can be more intentional about the way I spend money and that I could probably do more with what I have, and I could have more quality experiences, if I really understood that.

Brian Ford (22:42):

OK. So, you talked about being more intentional. That’s a, “I want to be in control.” And that’s OK. That’s a normal thing. You talked about doing more of what you really want to do, or maybe get more of what you really want. And we won’t explore all of that, but I know you love the outdoors. Maybe it’s going on a hiking trip. I don’t know. But all I’m saying is this is good. This is really your why. That’s what we need to focus on. Budgeting is not about spending less and being restrictive, it’s about actually getting more of what you really want. And let’s say that is a backpacking trip with friends. Cool. Let’s focus on that. When I was growing up, lived in Southern California and I loved to fly kites. I actually still do. So, kites fascinate me. And when I was young, I would launch this kite. I would let it all the way out.

And it was pretty high, and I just loved seeing it up in the air. But my little boy brain one day said, “Man, the string has run out. It can’t go any higher. I want to set my kite free. I want it to go even higher.”

Bright Dickson (23:45):

Aw, that’s so sweet.

Brian Ford (23:47):

I’m like, “This string is holding it back.” And so again, my little tiny boy brain got some scissors, and while it was very high up in the air... We’re talking you can barely see this thing up there. And I just thought I would set it free and it would fly forever. I cut the string and it came crashing down. And that wasn’t a one-time thing. That actually happens when you cut the string of a kite, if you’ve never tried it before. And I find that fascinating that I thought what was holding it back in reality was holding it up. And budgets are the same. That string or that budget that we think is holding us back is actually helping us fly.

The tension of a budget may seem on the surface to be restricting, but from the point of view from people who actually budget, they see budgets as liberating. They see budgets as a way of getting more of what they really want, which is kind of what you were just talking about. With a growth mindset, we’re now ready to set a goal not around necessarily budgeting, but around your real why for budgeting. And by the way, your why for budgeting will change. And that’s good. Maybe right now it’s travel, but after a little while it might be like, “Hey, I want to stop working one day.” And now we start talking about retirement. And that’s OK. All these different why’s for why we actually want to spend less money, that’s what’s important. Then once we’re real clear about that, it’s simply about we simply want to spend less on stuff you don’t really want in order to get things that you really do want. And then you can set some goals around that. I don’t know if that resonates with you or what you think about that, but what do you think?

Bright Dickson (25:21):

Yeah, it really does. One, I love the kite metaphor because I have been thinking of it as the restriction. And to think of it as actually, you used that word, the tension. That really makes sense to me. And I think it gives me a sense of freedom about it, because I think in some ways as I approach budgeting, I think of it as like, “This is what people are telling me to do.” And I have a natural distance from doing what people want me to do. I think you might be a big exception to this, Brian. But now that I think of it as a way to enable myself to be more of myself and to really level up living the life I want to live, and this is a tool to do that, I’m actually a little bit excited about it, which I would have never thought I would say about budgeting.

Brian Ford (26:09):

I love it. That’s what we want. It’s not about other people’s budgets, it’s about getting very clear about what you want and where you want your money to go, and then spending less on the stuff you don’t care about so you get more of the good stuff.

Bright Dickson (26:29):

Since you poked at me a little with the budgeting, I’m going to poke at you a little on the goal setting. I’m curious because I have this image of you as a guy who is very regimented, and when he decides to accomplish something, he does it, and it’s all wrapped up nice and pretty with a bow at the end. And I’m wondering, is that true? Do you achieve every goal you set? And if you don’t, what do you do about it and how do you think about it?

Brian Ford (26:56):

About goals, specifically, I fail all the time. I’d say about half of the time. And my failure looks something like this: I either set a few goals and won’t achieve all of them, or on a single goal I’ll only get maybe halfway. And it’s not easy. On the surface I think I’m put-together and so forth. And I am a little more regimented and logical than maybe the average human being, but my fixed mindset is saying, “Look, you failed. You’re not good at goals.”

Or I can find myself, if I’m not careful, saying, “Hey, you didn’t reach your goal. Why even try next time?” But then I’ve got this growth mindset of my self-talk that’s real. This happens. “Dude, you got way further and accomplished more than you would have without the goal.” Or sometimes I’ll say, “Hey, I’m learning. This is a process. I’ll get better next time.” But I do have to be mindful of my self-talk and I have to realize that I have to give more attention to that growth mindset. I genuinely believe that I get more done by setting goals than not. But I’m just not going to reach them all. And like we talked about earlier, I give myself a little space. I’m gentle with myself and realize it’s a process and I’m learning.

Bright Dickson (28:08):

One, I love that your growth mindset voice uses the word “dude.” Mine does too.

Brian Ford (28:14):

By the way, “dude” is a guy and a girl. I just want to make that very clear to all of our listeners. I’m from Southern California. I’m not talking about guys. Even when I first got married, my wife was like, “Brian, you’ve got to stop calling me ‘dude.’” And I was like, “Dude, it’s not going to happen.”

Bright Dickson (28:32):

I love that. I love that. It’s really helpful for me to hear how other people talk to themselves and what their growth mindset voice really sounds like. I think it’s so effective. But when we don’t achieve our goals, maybe we don’t hit the top goal, but we get those smaller steps in between. And just like you were saying about what your dad said about you don’t have to see the whole picture before you start. I think sometimes when we don’t achieve those goals, it’s really a platform to say, “OK, well, why? Maybe that goal wasn’t so important to me as I thought it was, or maybe my strategy was a little off or where I...” Thinking about really what broke down. And it gives us more knowledge about ourselves, but also is a place to expand creatively in our lives. So I think that’s so great.

Brian Ford (29:23):

Well, I appreciate you saying that. And Bright, I’ll tell you, I enjoyed the conversation today. We are out of time. If you enjoyed the tips and discussion, please subscribe in your favorite podcast app. And we’ll continue exploring how to build financial confidence and live a more positive, happy life. We’re Bright and Brian. Thanks for listening.